Game over. We lost. Nothing to see here, move along.

Aaron Trevena aaron.trevena at
Fri Nov 18 14:48:49 GMT 2005

On 11/18/05, Simon Wistow <simon at> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 11:17:12PM +0000, David Hodgkinson said:
> > Django and Rails demonstrably solved problems. In a kewl and
> > entertaining way. With stories.

Before anything, kudos to MST for doing a talk when so many people
were unable to do so, there are plenty of catalyst users more familiar
with presenting this kind of thing who didn't step up, for whatever

I would have liked to have done a maypole talk, but I'm really busy
with a new release so it would either have vapour or out of date
stuff, or both, on top of me being the wrong end of the country much
of the time (and moving house, job, juggling a little freelance work,

> Let's face it - Catalyst, Maypole, Rails, Django etc etc are all much of
> a muchness when it finally comes down to it.  [ snip ]
> [ ..]
> CPAN is, IMO, Perl's greatest strength and its biggest weakness. As oft
> debated before, the completely free for all nature of it is a double
> edged sword. We fill every niche at the expense of a definitive answer
> which everyone can stand behind and which gives us a common,
> transferrable skillset. We have 90 different templating solutions -
> everyone else has one. Which they stole of us anyway. Ruby has nothing
> else to crow about apart from Rails and so the whole community gets
> behind it. We have a hundred and one and we stand divided. It's like a
> small hicksville town being proud of the fact that one of its denizens
> grew the worlds largest potato compared to, I dunno, Milton Keynes and
> its concrete cows.

I'd certainly like to see more collaboration between catalyst and
maypole, Matt and Marcus have both been helpful and cooperative, but I
get a lot more stick than anything helpful if I ever try to talk to a
catalyst developer in public.

Maypole and catalyst both share common underlying technologies,
programming language and utilise apache/cgi/etc. Maypole and catalyst
also have SVN and web provided by the same people (for now at least)
so in between the sniping is there is some cooperation.

Collaboration on standardising behaviour for stuff like the Path
attribute, what a word means (driver, model_class, etc), patterns and
idioms would be cool.

The results of the framework talk for me are that I have a better idea
of what catalyst and others can do (from reading the talk slides) and
how to market maypole better.

It's also interesting to know that many people still haven't found a
framework they will stick to and are still checking out the
competition before committing over the longer term.



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