Copyright Theft (was Re: # and believe me, Perl is still alive... still alive!...)

Jonathan Stowe jonathan.stowe at
Wed Dec 10 12:04:18 GMT 2008

2008/12/10 Zbigniew Lukasiak <zzbbyy at>:
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Denny < at> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 23:28 +0000, Tim Sweetman wrote:
>>> > Although I think there are two further things that would help:
>>> * A Perl user group that didn't just insult n00bs when they turned up
>> I agree with this very strongly.  In which context, can I call to your
>> attention that 'n00b' isn't generally meant in any complimentary light.
>> The words 'beginner' and 'newcomer' adequately cover what you probably
>> meant, without throwing in derisory overtones.
>> This is one of my little personal crusades, so don't feel too singled
>> out  :)
>> I really do think that Perl has already suffered very serious damage
>> from the way the middle-to-senior members of the community treat
>> newcomers - it almost put me off Perl myself, when I joined #perl on
>> freenode ( then) about nine years ago and got insulted
>> about 200 times as much as I got helped.  Fortunately #linpeople were
>> much friendlier, and that's why I'm here now (and why I'm staff on
>> freenode now).  I suspect the prevailing attitude is why so many young
>> developers have turned to PHP over the last ten years - it's got a
>> community that welcomes experience-free beginners who need hand-holding
>> and help to find which of them have the potential to be good developers.
>> Yes, we're turning away all the script kiddies and other idiots.  We're
>> also turning away the 1 in 100 (or whatever) who could learn how to
>> write a properly designed large application - in any language.
> I concur very strongly on all your points.  One thing to add to this
> is that at the time of the Perl boom - people still believed in
> TIMTOWTDI and it was officially allowed to write Perl baby talk - this
> is from Programming Perl

<Excised the URL to copyright violating material>

I'll put your attempt to get us to participate in copyright theft down
to naivete, stupidity or youthful enthusiasm but please do not do this
again. There are O'Reilly published authors on this list who I am sure
wouldn't like you to be stealing from them and the majority of the
other members of the list generally sympathise with that position.  I
had assumed that everyone on this list had reached a level of
sophistication where they realized this was the prevailing viewpoint,
I'm sorry to discover that I am wrong.

This goes for everyone else on the list. Posting links to copyright
infringing material like this is absolutely forbidden. Not only will
anyone who contravenes this by removed from the list so will anyone
who thinks they would like to argue with me about this.

Hope this helps

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