Copyright Theft (was Re: # and believe me, Perl is still alive... still alive!...)

Zbigniew Lukasiak zzbbyy at
Wed Dec 10 13:11:56 GMT 2008

I am really sorry for starting this.  I hereby publicly apologize to
Larry Wall, Tom Christiansen, Randal L. Schwartz and the publisher.


PS.  I hope that doing that just once is OK.

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Jonathan Stowe
<jns at> wrote:
> 2008/12/10 Zbigniew Lukasiak <zzbbyy at>:
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Denny < at> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2008-12-09 at 23:28 +0000, Tim Sweetman wrote:
>>>> > Although I think there are two further things that would help:
>>>> * A Perl user group that didn't just insult n00bs when they turned up
>>> I agree with this very strongly.  In which context, can I call to your
>>> attention that 'n00b' isn't generally meant in any complimentary light.
>>> The words 'beginner' and 'newcomer' adequately cover what you probably
>>> meant, without throwing in derisory overtones.
>>> This is one of my little personal crusades, so don't feel too singled
>>> out  :)
>>> I really do think that Perl has already suffered very serious damage
>>> from the way the middle-to-senior members of the community treat
>>> newcomers - it almost put me off Perl myself, when I joined #perl on
>>> freenode ( then) about nine years ago and got insulted
>>> about 200 times as much as I got helped.  Fortunately #linpeople were
>>> much friendlier, and that's why I'm here now (and why I'm staff on
>>> freenode now).  I suspect the prevailing attitude is why so many young
>>> developers have turned to PHP over the last ten years - it's got a
>>> community that welcomes experience-free beginners who need hand-holding
>>> and help to find which of them have the potential to be good developers.
>>> Yes, we're turning away all the script kiddies and other idiots.  We're
>>> also turning away the 1 in 100 (or whatever) who could learn how to
>>> write a properly designed large application - in any language.
>> I concur very strongly on all your points.  One thing to add to this
>> is that at the time of the Perl boom - people still believed in
>> TIMTOWTDI and it was officially allowed to write Perl baby talk - this
>> is from Programming Perl
> <Excised the URL to copyright violating material>
> I'll put your attempt to get us to participate in copyright theft down
> to naivete, stupidity or youthful enthusiasm but please do not do this
> again. There are O'Reilly published authors on this list who I am sure
> wouldn't like you to be stealing from them and the majority of the
> other members of the list generally sympathise with that position.  I
> had assumed that everyone on this list had reached a level of
> sophistication where they realized this was the prevailing viewpoint,
> I'm sorry to discover that I am wrong.
> This goes for everyone else on the list. Posting links to copyright
> infringing material like this is absolutely forbidden. Not only will
> anyone who contravenes this by removed from the list so will anyone
> who thinks they would like to argue with me about this.
> Hope this helps

Zbigniew Lukasiak

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