I'm afraid I'm leaving already :(

bloke@perlbloke.com bloke at perlbloke.com
Mon Dec 15 03:21:14 GMT 2008

Hey People,
  I'm afraid I leaving this group. I was going to post this 3 days ago, but I thought best to let it sit over the weekend to make sure I felt the same way.

There seems to be an air of fear for all the people who lurk on this list. 
For those that are brave enough to post, they soon get shot down and discouraged from posting. 
This can be for making simple mistakes, or having an opinion an outspoken Cabal member does not agree with.

My second post here was:-
>I have to say I side with Nicholas on this one.
>If you find joy in tormenting people who make simple requests, maybe you should be looking at http://yp.direct.gov.uk/cyberbullying/

(my first post was only in desperation as management was breathing down my neck and I didn't know where to turn about Perl an UML)

I posted that and started to make and effort to contribute to this group as I saw a well known and respected member of this group stand up and say 
"I do not have time for poo flinging simians, nor do they do our image any good."

I was wholly impressed by this, and felt a mood of change, so I decided it was time to start posting.

All my posts since were aimed to encourage Perl and the community to do good things and help Perl grow and evolve.
The Perl is Dead post hurt so much I just had to start a Perl is Alive thread.

The majority of this group, as I read it, are good. They want good things for Perl. 

The main problem member for me recently is Jonathan Stowe. Some newer posters were trying to put out a good message for this group, reminding people that Perl was intended to be for everyone and expressing things about Perl that were important to them. It seems that Jonathan has acted quickly to put them in 'their place' as he appears to see it.

Some recent replies from Jonathan Stowe:-

>>If there is anyone out there who still doubts that London.pm is a
>>place where all things are possible; who still wonders if the dream of
>>our founders is alive in our time; who still questions the power of
>>our democracy...
>Nothing in the above should be taken as meaning that London.pm is infact
>a democracy of course ...

Our leader makes a nice inspiring speech, Jonathan is quick to discourage people.

>Strange how you seem to be towing exactly the same line as the *thrice*
>banned Lyle Hopkins....

I posted a link to a group that is trying to achieve exactly what the previous posters were suggesting. It doesn't matter who has taken the time to start the group, it was wholly relevant.

>I'll put your attempt to get us to participate in copyright theft down
>to naivete, stupidity or youthful enthusiasm but please do not do this

This was completely unnecessary, he made a mistake, we are all human. It clearly wasn't "an attempt to get us to participate in copyright theft" nor were your comments needed.

>> Let's just be nice, mm'kay?
>"Nice" doesn't cut it: politeness - that is to say adhering to a set
>of basic community norms and, if one doesn't understand those norms,
>not making up a standard for yourself that is at conflict with them
>and then getting the arse when called on it is the key.  Most of the
>crap that we get in this list is completely down to people not being

Pot and kettle... The person was clearly being polite, and asking you nicely to do the same. New people aren't going to understand the 'basic community norms' as you put it. Much the way a child will not be born knowing everything that you expect of it. What it takes it patience and taking a little time now and then to tell people what they've done/are doing wrong in a friendly and considerate way.

>>> And I said no arguing
>> http://www.xkcd.com/392/ (cartoon portraying one rule for me, another for you)
>Damn right!

This is a really bad attitude and very damaging to the group.

>So you appear to have some kind of bee in your bonnet about
>You are wrong, no-one has a right to be here by default.
>Oh get the man a violin and a tear jar.

This is not an acceptable way to talk to someone on or off-line. Seriously "Oh get the man a violin and a tear jar", please grow up.

>Whining fuckers, I should ban the lot of you...

So if we don't adhere to exactly what you want then we'll get booted? Certainly seems that way.

If I was you Jonathan, I'd probably say something horrid like "ohh look, Davros is picking on someone else", but I won't. Because I'm not you. Instead I'll say 'please don't drag this list down'.

Seems that many people here have the intention of turning this list into the friendly supportive place it should be. Please don't stamp on their efforts. Really you should be looking at yourself and why you are acting in this way.

To the 'Cabal' you seem to be quite divided on whether this list should be a friendly democratic place. Or whether it should be a Cabal led dictatorship, where you can do/say/act in whatever way you want, but everyone else must conform or keep quiet. Maybe you should resolve your internal issues and present a united front to the group?

Léon maybe you can be the leader that unites the Cabal (or at least muffles the nasty ones) and makes LPM the friendly place it should be?

Either way to this end it's to much for me :'(


P.S. I'm sorry Jonathan you wont be able to boot me, I'll have unsubbed by the time this hits the list.

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