iainspeed at gmail.com
Sun Apr 6 23:45:53 BST 2008
On 6 Apr 2008, at 9:13 pm, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> So we have perlbuzz.org, perl.org *and* perlfoundation.org. Maybe
> this is part
> of the problem.
On 6 Apr 2008, at 10:13 pm, Zbigniew Lukasiak wrote:
> And another interesting initiative:
That is a very interesting link.
Personally, I'm all for making CPAN a RESTful interface and then I
could run my own GUI over the top, and kill the 90's visuals. I don't
see a problem with having many sites, just the fact that all the
current sites look like they still get most of their traffic through
Gopher. What is (not) going on with PerlMonks?????! 
On 6 Apr 2008, at 9:24 pm, Jonathan Tweed wrote:
> But enough talking. What can we do about it? Will The Perl
> Foundation pay for new sites? If not, why not?
I'd also suggest:
- Eat some humble pie: call Perl6 "PerlN" or "PerlDev" or *something*
that isn't Perl6 (like the Strawberry and Vanilla perl - cool names,
too). Then take as much as possible from it and put it into the
current release and stick out a Perl6. Finally.
- Do what Apple have done with their business model (and M$ with
their developer support) - which is produce a vertical model for
perl. So newbies can get started within minutes, no /(f|m)ucking/
around with the command line. The advanced people are more advanced
and can just get on with it.
- Do what M$ do very well, and improve the documentation for CPAN
modules. Perhaps add ratings for the completeness of docs? It's a
failing of open source projects generally, and perl stuff certainly
isn't immune. 
- Build a proper IDE (yes, yes, "we don't need a GUI", blah blah. No,
*you* don't need a GUI, but you're stuck in a time warp), and make it
free, and good looking. 
- Stop listening to people who proclaim Perl to be the best language
ever, a bit like Liverpool supporters do about Liverpool. It's 17
years since a league title and they are still banging on. Things have
moved on, it's catch up time. 
- Cut the sneering at Web 2.0 and Ajax. They're cool *and* it makes
things easier. Get over it. Again, it's not 1999 and we don't all
read our websites using Lynx and wget. 
- Take Windows more seriously. It's a huge chunk of the market, and
all this snootiness is just bollocks. Python seems to work better on
it, why is that? Why can't I get a _simple_ DBI interface to SQL
Server that isn't ODBC? 
- Perhaps TPF needs to hire a communications/PR expert? The Arctic
Monkeys did it before they got a record deal, so it's not uncool
anymore ;) 
A big problem is that so much power in perl comes from regex, and
regex looks horrible and is difficult for newbies. I have no
suggestions for that.
 For those that don't know/remember
 Answer: design. http://www.perlmonks.org/ vs http://
www.railsforum.com/ is like Oasis vs Arctic Monkeys - more than 10
years out of date.
 http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/default.aspx vs http://
www.cpan.org/ - so many more examples of *actual use* on MSDN, not
just method signatures, and it looks better
- not number 1. Not even top 4 (more of a Tottenham at the mo, good
attack, poor defence :)
 http://maps.google.co.uk/ vs http://www.streetmap.co.uk/
SqlServer.html - quick? No, it might be good but I had to read too
many docs and just took too long - to connect to one of the big 3 RDBMS!
 http://www.alastaircampbelldiaries.co.uk/index.html ;)
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