Rudy Lippan rlippan at
Fri Dec 9 15:48:28 GMT 2011

On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 04:09:00 -0500, Uri Guttman <uri at>

> where did you get that figure? given the standard rate of 20% (and i
> know since i recruit) or even less, that would mean a salary of over
> 250k which is ridiculous but for a handful of perl hackers i know about
> (merlyn!).

CTH.  Your figure is in the ballpark for the contract portion.

> i don't have a deal with NaP so i can't say anything about this
> blowup. but i wouldn't ever keep someone from taking the bird in the
> hand. it is unprofessional and #^#^@&ed up.

What would you have done (other than manage your client appropriately)?
See below for an expanded timeline for the last week of the process...

>> > At least here in the US, bypassing recruiters is the much preferred
>> > method. I don't know why they're still so heavily relied on in the
>> > UK.
> preferred by some but not all. again, depends on the agent.
>>  I suspect that is because it adds about 30% to the cost of hiring
>>  someone; however, if you can't attract people....
> it is usually less cost than that. no one pays 30% or charges it. and if

I know its a bit high. Even at 20%, it is still a tidy commission. And
may have lowered it to get me in (I have seen that before) knowing that
I had contacts and would recommend people to fill out the rest of the

> 30% is your figure then the 54k commission above means a $180k salary
> which is still on the high side. and using an agency can mean more work

I have not a worked a "Perm" position in a long time. I asked up-front for
salary range and was told that they were, "truly flexible to find the
candidate", and after giving my contract rate she informed me that they
budged $150K, but again that there was flexibility for the right

The whole  interview dance was done as a contract. At the end,
I was told that I was, "The one NaP wanted to lead their US team".

Then came the call: Before NAP can sign off they would like to know what
you want as a final salary for the hire.

I took a off a % > 20 < 30 from the contract rate, and came up with $180K.
This looked reasonable because I'd like to be able to offer good Sr.
programmers $150K to be competitive in this market.  I also said that I
willing to take the $150K, but $180 was my happy point (based on having
to relocate, the cost of housing, &c).

 Tuesday:  Final interview at NaP in Mahwah, NJ. 
Wednesday: Current contract ends.
Thursday: NAP needs one more signature because of cost.
  Friday: The person at NaP is out sick, will be back Monday. I clarified
          I was about loose out on another offer.  Call Scheduled with NAP
          11 EST Monday. 
  Monday: There are actually two people that need to sign off but they
          to get everyone in a room tomorrow at 11:30 EST. NaP asks that
          hold off one more day. Call at 12:30 EST Tuesday".
 Tuesday: Hi, pffefh, um, a, yeah, a. I don't quite know what to say, ah,
          NaP wants to know if you would agree to be flexible to $120K for
          for the final salary for sign off, but they are willing to
          discuss it again at the end of the contract period.

     Later in the day:

"My apologies for the delay, I'm home dealing with a sick child. I just
caught up with Matt and Net-a-porte has decided not to build a team here
in the US. Apparently it's half the cost for them to build a team in the
UK vs. here in the US. I'm so sorry Rudolf. I hope you're able to
resurrect the offer from last week..."

Wednesday:  Emailed NAP and Eliassen regarding my understanding of how
            things fell out.

Yesterday:  I saw the post to the Perl Jobs mailing list from NaP and 
            Elliassen called to  confirm my understanding.  Emailed 
            jobs-discuss and followed that up with the OP.


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