london.pm Digest, Vol 86, Issue 13
Alexej Magura
perlook at cpan.org
Wed Dec 12 21:33:31 GMT 2012
How does one know when one 'has something to show'?
>
>
> Gaz
When the Overloads convene with the Cerebrates and the Overmind agrees with
them and they give you the greenlight-means-go signal, or at least that's
what *I've heard*. :P j/k.
On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 4:05 PM, <london.pm-request at london.pm.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: cpan you have to see (Gareth Harper)
> 2. Re: cpan you have to see (Schmoo)
> 3. Re: cpan you have to see (Ben Tisdall)
> 4. Re: cpan you have to see (Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes)
> 5. Re: cpan you have to see (Abigail)
> 6. Re: cpan you have to see (Peter Sergeant)
> 7. Re: cpan you have to see (Hakim Cassimally)
> 8. Re: cpan you have to see (Lyle)
> 9. Re: cpan you have to see (Tom Hukins)
> 10. Re: cpan you have to see (Uri Guttman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:14:03 +0000
> From: Gareth Harper <spansh+london at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: cpan you have to see
> To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm at london.pm.org>
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAJdz1P_ukZCwXb-yGVk9LvcyRMtGEzxQUpnN7WV17DxF-g8Eow at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 12 December 2012 17:57, Joseph Werner <telcodev at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Gareth Harper <spansh+london at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > PBP and I disagree with you on this one, Gareth. When a sub does a
> > "return 0;" to a list context, that is interpreted as true. A bare
> > "return;" is best practice.
> >
>
> I stand corrected.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:20:30 +0000
> From: Schmoo <schmooster at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: cpan you have to see
> To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm at london.pm.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CA+C7O_vGohA0HMAesDNeSCGtx5Ny3JiwU2-YBeG4q=
> KWqhirwg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 12 December 2012 15:57, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:
> > On 12/12/2012 07:12 AM, Leon Brocard wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 02:29:24AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
> >>>
> >>> i can't say much about this but you have to look at the code here.
> >>>
> >>> https://metacpan.org/author/PERLOOK/
> >>
> >>
> >> I congratulate Alexej on joining the CPAN authors club. Instead of
> making
> >> fun
> >> of him on a mailing list why not engage with him and help him improve?
> >
> >
> > look at his early rt ticket replies. and i did engage him and admonish
> his
> > attitude. his reply was more normal but he still thinks his code is doing
> > something useful and even correct. i will point him in better directions
> > later today.
> >
> > but he should be learning basic perl on his own box and wait for
> publishing
> > until he has something to show. what is up there is very broken ('#' is
> > false in his world) and he doesn't know it.
>
> How does one know when one 'has something to show'?
>
>
> Gaz
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:27:26 +0000
> From: Ben Tisdall <ben at tisdall.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: cpan you have to see
> To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm at london.pm.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CA+s9Q_=n6JManu=
> R1kn18c-ThcCCs0hRgFTZKLrw6kbUsP7ASg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Mark Fowler <mark at twoshortplanks.com>
> wrote:
> > Alexj, I am sorry to hear that. I just wanted to say, on behalf of the
> often silent majority, we appreciate all the effort that people put into
> their Perl modules on the CPAN. It, as you have just pointed out, can be a
> thankless task. So thank you.
> >
>
> Indeed, I do hope you'll forgive the unconstructive responses to your
> contributions (which I don't think are characteristic of the community
> at large) and that you'll continue to engage with Perl.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ben.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 10:30:37 -0800
> From: Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes <sthoenna at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: cpan you have to see
> To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm at london.pm.org>
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAN7g7HXN1JCkb2hge9snYSi4jrgxJB8L4AWfitX2MsiUeb+8Qg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Edmund von der Burg
> <evdb at ecclestoad.co.uk> wrote:
> > Each language has its own idioms and ways to do things. In shell
> > scripting the while true ... done loop is one of them.
> >
> > In Perl the equivalent would be while (1) { .... }
>
> Actually, it's: while () { ... }
>
> But not many people seem to remember that. :)
>
> Programming Perl has this to say:
> > Speakers of a natural language are allowed to have differing skill
> levels, to speak different subsets of the language, to learn as they go,
> and, generally, to put the language to good use before they know the whole
> language. You don't know all of Perl yet, just as you don't know all of
> English. But that's Officially Okay in Perl culture. You can work with
> Perl usefully, even though we haven't even told you how to write your own
> subroutines yet.
>
> And, yes, I think that applies even to code published on CPAN.
> If there are *bugs*, report them.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:35:03 +0100
> From: Abigail <abigail at abigail.be>
> Subject: Re: cpan you have to see
> To: "London.pm Perl M\[ou\]ngers" <london.pm at london.pm.org>
> Message-ID: <20121212183503.GA25786 at almanda>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:57:39AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
> > On 12/12/2012 07:12 AM, Leon Brocard wrote:
> >> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 02:29:24AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
> >>> i can't say much about this but you have to look at the code here.
> >>>
> >>> https://metacpan.org/author/PERLOOK/
> >>
> >> I congratulate Alexej on joining the CPAN authors club. Instead of
> making fun
> >> of him on a mailing list why not engage with him and help him improve?
> >
> > look at his early rt ticket replies. and i did engage him and admonish
> > his attitude. his reply was more normal but he still thinks his code is
> > doing something useful and even correct. i will point him in better
> > directions later today.
> >
> > but he should be learning basic perl on his own box and wait for
> > publishing until he has something to show. what is up there is very
> > broken ('#' is false in his world) and he doesn't know it.
>
>
> The power of CPAN is that it is available to *ALL*.
>
> Noone is forcing you to use what's there. If you think it's crappy, don't
> use it. If it pisses you off people prefer to use a module that you think
> is crappy, write something better. After all, most people just want to
> fix a problem, and they don't (usually rightly) how it's solved.
>
> If only code that is approved by a cabal is allowed on CPAN, it will
> quickly become something else then it's now.
>
>
>
> Abigail
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:09:55 +0000
> From: Peter Sergeant <pete at clueball.com>
> Subject: Re: cpan you have to see
> To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm at london.pm.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAHyrgodKxjVrfUvQaYH2Ymy_2Bz5T283sKva-xRd=560iiq=
> iQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Gareth Harper <spansh+london at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On 12 December 2012 17:57, Joseph Werner <telcodev at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Gareth Harper <
> spansh+london at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > PBP and I disagree with you on this one, Gareth. When a sub does a
> > > "return 0;" to a list context, that is interpreted as true. A bare
> > > "return;" is best practice.
> > >
> >
> > I stand corrected.
> >
>
> Don't stand corrected too quickly - the idea that you should always use a
> bare *return()* is far from universally accepted - you can bite yourself
> just as easily in reverse by using bare return, and getting an empty list
> where you expected a false or undefined value:
>
> https://gist.github.com/4270506
>
> The boolean argument is reaching, at best. Perl programmers frequently use
> numeric 0 as a false value, and yet no-one is saying you should write code
> like:
>
> sub lock_count {
> if ( $lock_counter ) {
> return $lock_counter;
> } else {
> return;
> }
> }
>
> "Just in case" someone has decided to take your input in to an array,
> before asking if lock_count is true.
>
> If you're using a bare return then all your returns should be
> *wantarray*dependent, or you're making the code even less predictable
> - making the
> *return* of an undefined value the only context-dependent *return* in a sub
> is crazy talk!
>
> The simple rule here is: write functions that return either a list, or a
> scalar, and not both, and be explicit in your function documentation which
> you're expecting to return.
>
> -P
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:53:34 +0000
> From: Hakim Cassimally <hakim.cassimally at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: cpan you have to see
> To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm at london.pm.org>
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAM-P+0uQj9yvq8rdM4yVRA36-vMJK45iwQWjw1+kxMsiLH95+Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> I'm sorry that you've had a bad initial experience of CPAN and now of
> this mailing list.
>
> On 12 December 2012 17:21, Alexej Magura <perlook at cpan.org> wrote:
> > As for my rt replies, what did you expect I was gonna say: 'Oh, my bad I
> > wrote the worst module in the world and you're the king of all; here let
> me
> > just remove it real quick.'? Think again.
>
> The RT commenter who wrote:
>
> "This isn't python's pypi where everybody is encouraged to upload for
> fun whether useful or not. Only upload something if it will be useful
> to others."
>
> is entirely wrong. CPAN flourishes not despite the fact because we
> accept all code, regardless of quality, but *because* of it.
>
> Though it looks like your CPAN code has a few rough edges, many of
> them can be resolved quite straight-forwardly, and I see you've
> already had some helpful advice on how to do that from Edmund, Gareth
> et al.
>
> Best,
> Hakim
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:02:28 +0000
> From: Lyle <webmaster at cosmicperl.com>
> Subject: Re: cpan you have to see
> To: london.pm at london.pm.org
> Message-ID: <50C8E2D4.9090808 at cosmicperl.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> It seems this guy is sticking up for himself following the regular LPM
> taunts. Shouldn't most of you now follow up with more nastiness, some
> insults in ASCII art, then when he gives anything back kick him from the
> list? As far as I've experienced, this is how you do things.
>
> After all, only the cabal should be really be coding Perl. Anyone new to
> Perl should be an instant expert, or at the very least, bend over and
> hand the lube to the nearest cabeller.
>
> Then later you should have some threads on why more new people aren't
> coming to Perl and this community, and how you can't really understand
> why they wouldn't.
>
>
> Lyle
>
> On 12/12/2012 17:21, Alexej Magura wrote:
> > As for my rt replies, what did you expect I was gonna say: 'Oh, my bad I
> > wrote the worst module in the world and you're the king of all; here let
> me
> > just remove it real quick.'? Think again.
> >
> > *When I call `true()` I get `undef` back (or empty list in list context).
> > It should return `"i should stop uploading useless modules"` instead.*
> > Is not a valid bug ticket, and it is not remotely funny. Imagine how all
> > of you would feel if you had just signed up for Cpan because you thought
> it
> > would be neat to be helpful and contribute something to the perl
> community
> > only to have the entire community turn on you. So much for "There's more
> > than one way to do it." (Perl's motto) More like "If you don't get it
> right
> > the first time, never try again."
> >
> > Since I joined Cpan, I've only received one bug ticket that was actually
> > helpful, and I've received four total, to my knowledge.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 12:05 PM, Alexej Magura <perlook at cpan.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Okay, allow me to clarify what the TrueFalse module that I wrote is
> trying
> >> to emulate. It's trying to emulate the 'true' and 'false' user commands
> >> available under Linux.
> >>
> >> Haven't you ever done something like this in Unix Shell?
> >>
> >> while true; do ls /var/log/; sleep 5s; clear; done
> >>
> >> The statment 'true' in this example, as far as I know, only returns true
> >> and that's it. It may not look very useful, but it can be useful when
> >> you just need to do something and just want to write 'Just because I
> >> said so, keep doing A until I say stop.'
> >>
> >> I'm sorry if all of you think that my modules are poorly written, but if
> >> you want me to take you seriously, then say something productive for a
> >> change, that is make some suggestions (I'm open to suggestions.)
> >>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 21:00:14 +0000
> From: Tom Hukins <tom at eborcom.com>
> Subject: Re: cpan you have to see
> To: london.pm at london.pm.org
> Message-ID: <20121212210014.GF96538 at eborcom.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:02:28PM +0000, Lyle wrote:
> > It seems this guy is sticking up for himself following the regular LPM
> > taunts. Shouldn't most of you now follow up with more nastiness, some
> > insults in ASCII art, then when he gives anything back kick him from the
> > list? As far as I've experienced, this is how you do things.
>
> Lyle, you posted a rude, unconstructive message. Your rudeness
> contrasts with the polite, helpful replies that London.pm members
> have written to Alexej.
>
> If you can't behave reasonably on this list, please take your
> delusional conspiracy theories elsewhere.
>
> Tom
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:05:58 -0500
> From: Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com>
> Subject: Re: cpan you have to see
> To: "London.pm Perl M[ou]ngers" <london.pm at london.pm.org>
> Message-ID: <50C8F1B6.4080000 at stemsystems.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 12/12/2012 11:46 AM, James Laver wrote:
> > On 12 Dec 2012, at 15:57, Uri Guttman <uri at stemsystems.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/12/2012 07:12 AM, Leon Brocard wrote:
> >>> he still thinks his code is doing something useful
> >
> > It is. I had to write something similar to his Boolean module when I
> > inherited a fucked up database that had different standards for
> > Boolean values in different parts of the code base. Everything was
> > stored in a blob column for extra meta-database hate.
> >
> > Just because you get to work with all of the nice clean code in the
> > world doesn't mean some people aren't stuck with the mistakes of
> > others. Then again, my primary income stream is writing code and
> > yours is recruitment, so it's expected I'm more likely to have to
> > clean up messes.
>
> you still have strange views of my career. i have worked with some of
> the ugliest code and team(mis)work in existence. i have recently been
> doing perl support of a team where explaining why globals are bad took a
> few weeks to sink in to one member. you already made a judgment of my
> perl hunting and now another on my main income. i also get royalties
> from o'reilly for stuff. i have more pans in the fire than you would
> imagine. the reason my perl hunting is so good is BECAUSE of my activity
> in perl development, support, training, writing, etc. i can speak perl
> to both sides and do a proper match and never need buzzwords or similar
> fluff.
>
> uri
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of london.pm Digest, Vol 86, Issue 13
> *****************************************
>
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