kentfredric at gmail.com
Fri Jan 17 16:27:23 GMT 2014
On 17 January 2014 23:36, Joel Bernstein <joel at fysh.org> wrote:
> But vim isn't an IDE, at least not as I understand one. Isn't there a
> distinction to be made between "IDE" and "programmable text editor", in
> terms of the "integration"? I've heard people assert that dynamic languages
> don't mix with IDEs but AFAIK most IDE features come from the Smalltalk
> browser, and Smalltalk is of course an incredibly dynamic language in terms
> of typing and dispatch.
I'm curious what the definition of "Integrated" means in this context.
- Vim supports embedded Perl execution
- Vim extensions support running perl code from vim
- Vim extensions support running tests from vim
- Vim extensions do provide some kinds of method completion, albeit limited
and execute in a rather global scope.
I don't use most of those features, but I guess what I'm saying is, when
you say "IDE", what features are you expecting as a result?
Many the features you require are available as vim extensions, and many of
the features you expect of languages like Java are mostly unsupportable in
many IDE's as long as IDE's don't want to evaluate your code as-is. ( ie:
Java can make assumptions about what types are because of obvious lexical
markers of what types they are, and can look at those type definitions to
determine applicable methods. But its not foolproof, and if the type
casting casts the wrong types and will fail at runtime, java will still
complete methods for the assumed types as if they are valid )
This vim extension provides most the features I look for in a Perl IDE,
which isn't really much, and it provides a whole lot of things I never use.
The difference though for me, is in Java, you literally can't work on any
serious project without an IDE, some projects are so IDE centric that you
can /only/ work on them with the projects choice of IDE, or it can be very
non-obvious at least, how to work with a project with a different IDE.
And for perly people, that requirement is a bit of a tall order. Many
people dislike the dzil toolkit because of 'the installtime' ( kinda
because they're not aware dzil authors do somewhat optimise for
contribution to be possible without dzil :
but I'd rather be installing dzil than eclipse, or some other bloated
IDE, let alone a bloated IDE which is payware!.
Though many Perl people can and do use IDE's for their stuff, I regularly
try IDE's and find them unusable for Perl things, and it makes me feel like
I'm lying down, thrashing, trying to get things done, essentially being
hamstrung by IDE's sense of workflow, when I could just be spawning a text
editor, making the fixes, and be done with it.
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