NLP - more karma++ please

A Laymond lists at
Tue Sep 11 22:43:09 BST 2007

Getting first hand experience is good, so what about trying things for
oneself *and* understanding why someone else got to think that way
before judging the concepts (NLP, CBT, religions, lifestyles,
hypnosis, whatever we're talking about).
If anything, we might understand others better and accept that
something that works for one doesn't often work for others... we could
also stay curious about what those theories tell us, and only use the
ideas that fit us?
Worst case, if I think the person discussing those concepts with me is
talking crap, I still don't have to listen.

Anyway, glad this subject gets us talking :-]


On 9/11/07, nigel at <nigel at> wrote:
> Hi,
> > Hi Chris.
> >
> >>> [Expectation that experts should be able to explain stuff]
> >
> >> My experience of psychology and spirituality is just that: experiential.
> >> If I told you some of the exercises we got up to at Tantra, I imagine (and
> >> that is my imagining, which may or may not be correct) it would both be
> >> open to being misconstrued and would lack the power of the experience that
> >> I had. I have heard other people on workshops say similar things.
> >
> >> There's something in Zen buddhism about not being able to describe Zen
> >> without losing your own Zen nature. For someone like me, from an academic
> >> background - that can sometimes be a frustrating thing to deal with.
> >
> > Douglas Hofstadter writes about Zen, logic, and paradox in his monumental
> > "Godel, Escher, Bach". I think he illuminates matters somewhat; however, I
> > may have lost my Zen nature by believing so. :)
> >
> Recently Hofstadter has updated his ideas in "I am a Strange Loop". Which
> basically contends that our souls are like strange self-referential
> feedback loops. Interestingly he also suggests that your strange loop may
> not be limited to just one mind --- they can be shared.
> Generally speaking I think you have to look after your loop. Whether you
> use NLP, cognitive behavioural therapy, spirituality, religon - they all
> offer memes for adjusting your loop - use the one that works for you. Now
> there's a friendly meme --- TMTOWTDI.
> Talking of shared loops ... I've always been surprised at the level of
> agro on this list. We are all in each other's head space to some extent
> and generally I think there should be more karma++ on
> More karma++;
> NIge
> p.s. I wonder who is going to prove my point by flaming me?

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